I am a feminist, and if you’re not generally sympathetic to the aims of feminism, this post will probably just annoy you. But you can fuck off anyway. (Seriously. Go to hell.)
So, Nine Deuce over at Rage Against the Manchine is writing a series on bdsm, which starts with this post. I seriously do not recommend reading it if you are not at least familiar with radical feminist writing and ideas. I find the posts wrong-headed in a whole bunch of ways but am able to compensate because I’m sympathetic to the general stance although I am not a radical feminist myself. I read (and sometimes enjoy) other radfem blogs.
Radical feminists* are pretty much universally opposed to bdsm, and this is not surprising. Radical feminism tends to hold that all power imbalances are oppressive and intrinsically patriarchal. (It is easy for them to ignore F/m pairings but it doesn’t really matter anyway; if women dominate and oppress men they’re still participating in patriarchy.) If you see the world that way, it’s hard to support people consensually mimicking the worst parts of our culture.
There are always the women who will tell you that anything they freely do is a “choice” and thus feminist. “Isn’t feminism about choices?” they ask. “So why should I be criticized if I choose to wear high heels and makeup because it makes me feel sexy? I’m not doing it for a man, I’m doing it for myself!”
Let me make it clear that, presented with individuals who wear high heels and makeup because it makes them feel sexy, I don’t have a personal problem with it. We all do what we can to feel good and get along in the world. But I find those practices problematic in general, in that they are symptomatic of (and act to perpetuate) societal ills.
So from that perspective, I can certainly understand condemning bdsm along the same lines. I’m just not certain that it’s true of bdsm, and I admit that because I am attracted to bdsm and not to femininity, I have a bias. I mean, it sounds crazy to say, “Lipstick is a social ill, but beating up and dominating your lover for fun is just awesome!” What planet do I come from?
One thing I’m curious about [she types, neatly sidestepping the central issue] is, as feminism succeeds, will bdsm become more or less prevalent? Will people who are not steeped in patriarchy from birth never develop the kinks we have? Or will power exchanges remain intrinsically fascinating to people, and perhaps become even more prevalent when they are not associated with so much real-world badness? Will there be more dominant women if women are not expected to suppress their sexuality and conform to the desires of men? Will there be more submissive women if we don’t associate it with regressive social ideas? Will more people, or fewer, dress up as Nazis as fascism and antisemitism become less and less threatening?
On the “social ills” front, I do not think that my practice of my sexuality contributes to patriarchy. I don’t think the bdsm community in general does either. Most of the community encourages negotiation, personal expression, finding out what you want and trying to get it, and other good, anti-patriarchal values. And I know I am not willing to give up the best kind of sex I’ve ever had just because it might come from a bad place. I’m just not.
I think I’ll end it there. I could add a million caveats and clarifications to everything I’ve said, but I won’t. If you’re interested in the intersection of bdsm and feminism in general, I recommend Trinity’s blog, let them eat pro-sm feminist safe spaces.
[* It's important to note that by "radical feminists" I do not mean "feminists who are radical" and I am not using "radical" as an insult or to mean that they are crazy. There is a branch/type of feminism that I - and others, I think - call "radical feminism" and I am merely identifying these feminists as belonging to that branch.]
One thing I’m curious about [she types, neatly sidestepping the central issue] is, as feminism succeeds, will bdsm become more or less prevalent?
neither, just less M/f by default
Will people who are not steeped in patriarchy from birth never develop the kinks we have?
most of ‘em are independent of it i think. a few play on it. those’ll get less frequent.
Or will power exchanges remain intrinsically fascinating to people,
yep
and perhaps become even more prevalent when they are not associated with so much real-world badness?
possible
Will there be more dominant women if women are not expected to suppress their sexuality and conform to the desires of men?
hell ya
Will there be more submissive women if we don’t associate it with regressive social ideas?
yes
Will more people, or fewer, dress up as Nazis as fascism and antisemitism become less and less threatening?
more, probably. but it won’t be edgeplay.
Ooh, I was going to answer, but Trinity’s answers were good. Nevermind then.
Thanks for the post. I’m too tired to string thoughts together at the moment, nevermind letters (or should that be the other way around)–but I get sooooo sick of pseudo-liberal feminists going “Feminism is about choices!”
And I don’t even feel the need to add the caveats, apologias, footnotes, and so on I usually would, because I owe myself my dinner and beer. I’m just glad there are other weirdos out there who realize that some of our choices are affected by society gah.
Okay beer is calling.
I’m a feminist and I frequently wear femme. Those two aspects I can’t easily reconcile, just as being a submissive in bdsm doesn’t sit very easily with feminism. The thing is, though, that the fetishistic side of high-femme really turns me on. It activates me in a way that’s way more expressive and articulate and demanding than the silent and invisible-to-myself person I was before I determined that my own sexuality even had validity. Femme is a powerful mask – of course it has been built up through oppressive norms; masculinity has as well.
Part of where one draws the line on this issue seems to depend on whether one views the binary construction of gender (for me this includes lots of space for genderqueer and trans identities to move around in the central part of the same axis/spectrum) as being inherently oppressive. While I acknowledge they are perpetuated through social imbalances, then again, they are great big visible costumey signifiers to push to extremes and play dress-up with and overturn and mess up – so for me it basically comes down to intent and deliberation again.
There are oppressive heteronormative trends in places where gender expression is fluid and one might expect people to be much more open-minded, so it cuts both ways. Essentially – ha!- with gender I think it’s wisest just to fuck cool and have fun.
I find it most interesting that nine-duce has so far ignored the idea that people do BDSM because they find it sexually exciting.
She claims to want to examine why anyone would do this- assuming that social conditioning is the only possible reason. The patriarchy created a society where women are subordinate-therefore all submissive women have been brainwashed! Submissive men are all fucked up!
Argggh.
Like you so often say, Dev-it gets you hot, so you do it. Jos also seems to enjoy it. Gasp!
Who cares, I thought the whole deal with you BDSM types was you follow your desires, I have been reading these blogs for a while now and there just seem to be so many rules and pussyfooting around, I am not especially drawn to S&M but less so now – I don’t think I could deal with the rules and regulations.
We are on the verge of entering into a massive recession, possibly the worst since the great depression. You would think people would have other things on their minds. Mind you, having said that, while the need for overpriced floggers may decline, it is pretty well-known that in depression era Germany S&M was all the rage. I wonder how many people make their living of the skin trade in comparison to those days, I imagine the collapse of Wall Street has had a significant impact on the earnings of high priced hookers, (vanilla and dom’s). If GM or Ford go under, (once unthinkable), then the lack of all those UAW jobs is going to affect the earning of the local strip bars. Maybe the bad times will bring a need for more escapism or perhaps people will become more introspective and sex will become more of a behind closed doors thing. Power exchange is likely to continue no matter what, I found it interesting you mentioned Nazism and Fascism, Hard times normally bring an increasing interest in nationalism so maybe they wont be less threatening. Have you ever seen the movie Night Porter with Dirk Bogarde and Charlotte Rampling.
Have you read the Califia short story “The Hustler”? I think it’s the best statement about radical feminist rejection anti-bdsm ever written.
Er, I meant to write “radical feminist rejection OF bdsm”.
Sexism contributes to patriarchy. Gender essentialism contributes to patriarchy. Heteronormativity contributes to patriarchy.
Having the kind of sex that brings me the most pleasure? Yeah, not so much.