For our scene last night, Jos was not permitted to lift or move objects not directly required for a task. Thus, when he was thirsty, I gave him water in a bowl on the floor.
I enjoyed it. (I especially enjoyed the clink of the ring on his collar against the bowl.) When I was trying to explain it to my roommate today, I pointed out that it wasn’t to humiliate Jos – that I would never humiliate him.
“Well, that’s good,” the roommate said.
“I’m not into humiliation,” I said. “If I were, then I’d probably do it. I don’t like it, but I wouldn’t like pain if I didn’t kink for it either.”
“Hmm.”
“But degradation is something else,” I said.
“It is?” he asked.
“Yeah. Humiliation is about shame.”
“All right. Then how would you define degradation?”
I was somewhat at a loss. I think I said something like, “It’s when you do something that might be humiliating, but you’re not humiliated.”
What’s hot about Jos drinking from a bowl is not, for me, a mean feeling like, “Look at him, drinking from a bowl like an animal.” It’s more about how he just does it. I tell him “here is your water” and he will just drink it. He may feel challenged by it, but he will simply apply himself to the task.
Discussing this with Jos today, his proposed definition was, “Degradation is when you waive a right without acknowledging that you’re doing it because you’re missing a corresponding capacity,” adding, “Humiliation implies a lack of capacity. Thus, shame.”
Right. He’s not drinking from a bowl because he’s no better than that. He’s making a sacrifice. With intent. For me.
9 responses so far ↓
lorelin // 11 February 2008 at 12:42 am
I hope you write more about this, because it’s something I find really interesting. I’ve never thought of erotic humiliation as being about lack of capacity. Does that mean that, say, doing something humiliating to him when he’s in bondage and can’t resist would be humiliating, as he wouldn’t have the capacity to stop you? Or am I completely misreading?
If it was me, I would see the drinking out of a bowl as erotic humiliation, but then humiliation is part of my kink, so I’m biased :). I suppose if humiliation isn’t your kink, then you can do exactly the same thing and experience it completely differently (the same with pain, as you point out).
Joscelin Verreuil // 11 February 2008 at 12:57 am
I’d like to step in and try and explain, since it’s my definition (and arrived at after only five minutes).
I certainly don’t claim that I’m using conventional definitions of “humiliation” or “degradation” and I’m quite certain Mistress doesn’t either.
By “corresponding capacity” I’m referring to a personal quality. For example, I’m a bit sloppy eating. If my Mistress wished to shame me, she might have me drink out of a bowl on the floor to shame me for eating like an animal. In this case, there is an implication that I’m forfeiting the right to my water in a cup because I lack a human quality. That would be humiliation.
On the other hand, my eating habits were likely the last thing on her mind when she set that bowl down. It was exciting and hot for her to watch me do something otherwise associated with shame FOR HER. What she did, then, falls under what we call degradation.
Which we should call humiliation and which, degradation, is probably somewhat arbitrary. I’m sure “degrading” is an acceptable synonym for “humiliating” in most thesauri.
devastatingyet // 11 February 2008 at 9:11 am
I love the way you worked that example. I want to add that it’s not only that I/we don’t actually believe that you have to drink out of a bowl because you’re lowly – we also don’t pretend for fun that it’s the case.
The word “degrade” breaks down to me as “to lower the grade of.” You’re getting demoted to a lower level. If it brings shame, it’s humiliating, but if you know you’re doing it in (valued) service, it isn’t. It’s still the lowering of level that is where the hotness comes from – I don’t have some kind of “drinking out of a bowl” fetish or whatever – but it’s not about thinking or pretending that you’re intrinsically lowly.
Alexis // 11 February 2008 at 9:51 am
However you wish to define it, or view it, or positively spin it, neither of you exist in a vacuum. You have both been socialized by this culture, and however you consciously view the act, subconsciously you are creating neural pathways along the more traditionally accepted definitions of either humiliation or degredation. There’s nothing you can do about that.
Joscelin Verreuil // 11 February 2008 at 1:37 pm
I’m in a weird mood, Alexis.
But I’d like to remind you that I’m working on a thesis in mathematics. I define new terms on a daily basis, weigh them, compare them to traditional ideas, and throw them out a significant portion of the time.
Don’t even edge close to implying that I am incapable of thinking outside our language and then extending it to accomodate.
Richard // 11 February 2008 at 5:27 pm
My own distinction between humiliation and degradation is the former is an emotional act, the latter physical. Not that it is quite that clean and neat.
I like both but connect neither with shame an oddball emotion I’ve read about but don’t quite understand.
For me they are mechanisms that enable me to feel submission more strongly. Myself I wouldn’t engage in anything shaming because it is too risky emotionally.
lorelin // 11 February 2008 at 11:57 pm
Thanks for the explanation about ‘capacity’ – I see what you mean now.
I do connect humiliation with shame – that’s what makes it sexy for me. It’s about time I did my own post on this.
subversive_sub // 12 February 2008 at 6:10 pm
Interesting. I pretty much have the same interpretations of those two terms, though I haven’t thought about it much. I think of some of my kinks as “degrading” (esp. being at someone’s feet, boot-licking, being kicked, etc.), because in my head, there is a sort of “this is your place and don’t forget it” about it, which I associate with degradation. I like the feeling of being taken down a notch. But I don’t find that particularly humiliating, because I don’t feel embarrassed by it. I suppose I also associate humiliation more with verbal/emotional play, and to a lesser extent to punishment or orders that might be shameful for whatever reason.
subversive_sub // 12 February 2008 at 6:11 pm
P.s. “the clink of the ring on his collar against the bowl” = very hot. :)